1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,560 I asked if you wanted one and you said no. 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,519 - I didn't. - You did. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,519 - You did a kind of shrug. - I never heard you ask anything. 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:18,920 Well, I did. 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,920 Well, you need to talk louder, Tony. Project. 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,039 Mm! 7 00:00:31,079 --> 00:00:32,840 Cups of tea are nice, 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,600 but they're never nicer, are they… 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,799 than when you've got a biscuit to go with them. 10 00:00:41,079 --> 00:00:43,759 - You'd agree, wouldn't you? - I've always thought that. 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,079 - There you go, Kyle. - Thanks, Vanessa. 12 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,840 I feel sorry for you, for both of you. 13 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,399 Your mouths must be very dry. 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,200 Would you like a biscuit, Tony? 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,719 Only if you make us a cup of tea first. 16 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,000 I'll do it for three. 17 00:01:05,079 --> 00:01:07,400 - Three? - Three, up front. 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,560 Or I'm going nowhere. 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,960 Two biscuits, one up front, one on delivery. 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,280 - How did you do so well out of this? - That's the deal, Tony. 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,120 Take it or leave it. 22 00:01:28,439 --> 00:01:30,000 They're bringing him up now. 23 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:32,159 Aren't we meant to wait? 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,520 She doesn't want to give him time to think. 25 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:50,840 What are you looking at? 26 00:02:53,199 --> 00:02:55,039 He's talking to himself! 27 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,199 Here we go. 28 00:03:36,039 --> 00:03:39,759 The time is 16:10 on Thursday the second of April. 29 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,079 Present, DCI Natalie Hobbs… 30 00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:44,120 DS Jamie Reiss. 31 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:47,960 And… 32 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,560 Singh, Sandeep. 33 00:03:58,439 --> 00:04:01,960 Zero-six, zero-four, eighty-two. 34 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:05,919 How was the trip over from… where is it now, Belmarsh? 35 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:09,199 You were in Brixton before, yes? 36 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:17,879 I have no intention of helping you with your inquiries. None whatsoever. 37 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:19,800 Whatever they may be. 38 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,879 But you know what they are, Sandeep. 39 00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:25,360 You were told when you were arrested in your cell. 40 00:04:26,439 --> 00:04:29,639 I heard what they said. I just don't know anything about it. 41 00:04:32,079 --> 00:04:33,399 Remind me. 42 00:04:33,959 --> 00:04:37,159 Prior to conviction, you were a successful businessman, weren't you? 43 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,560 Projects in Malaysia, Singapore, investment opportunities… 44 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:46,159 When you were first arrested in 2010 45 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,519 and the custody sergeant asked for your address, 46 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,079 you said you had "properties dotted around the south of England, 47 00:04:53,519 --> 00:04:56,159 and different cars for different days of the week." 48 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,879 That's the kind of character we were dealing with at the time. 49 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,040 - But the woman you murdered… - Samantha West. 50 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,639 Whose money you wanted, who said she would invest in one of your schemes, 51 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,279 but pulled out on the advice of her brother… 52 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,519 She realized you weren't the business expert 53 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,040 you claimed you were. 54 00:05:14,319 --> 00:05:15,360 No. 55 00:05:15,439 --> 00:05:17,920 - Which is why you killed her? - No. 56 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,560 No, I killed her 57 00:05:21,639 --> 00:05:24,839 because she did not give me her money on the date 58 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,639 that she said she would, and that made me very angry. 59 00:05:29,519 --> 00:05:31,079 Not because I was a bad businessman. 60 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,600 Well, at least your business reputation wasn't damaged. 61 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,480 What would you know about business? 62 00:05:38,159 --> 00:05:39,159 Hmm? 63 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,680 What would you know about business? 64 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:45,959 About as much as you, by the sounds of things. 65 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:49,879 Your only remaining property now is a studio flat in central London, yes? 66 00:05:49,959 --> 00:05:50,959 No. 67 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,600 Once again, no. Where did you even get that from? 68 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,120 She's talking about your cell. 69 00:06:08,079 --> 00:06:11,160 This is not improving your chances of me answering your questions. 70 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,480 You're raking over old ground. And for no good reason. 71 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,279 - Well, hang on… - This has nothing to do with me. 72 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,319 Let us be the judge of that. 73 00:06:21,199 --> 00:06:23,160 And even if you think it does, 74 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,279 let me remind you, I have no intention of answering your inquiries. 75 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:28,360 None whatsoever. 76 00:06:28,439 --> 00:06:30,279 - Sandeep... - Whatever they may be. 77 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,360 For a man who says he won't talk… 78 00:06:38,199 --> 00:06:40,240 The name Annabelle Ashcombe… 79 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,319 Does that mean anything to you? 80 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,720 Annabelle was a young entrepreneur from Colchester. 81 00:06:52,079 --> 00:06:54,639 She went missing in September 2009. 82 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,199 That's seven months prior to your arrest for the murder of Samantha West. 83 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,800 Not a case you're aware of, no? 84 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,639 Her parents are now divorced. 85 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,800 Mum got the house and still keeps Annabelle's bedroom just the way it was, 86 00:07:09,879 --> 00:07:12,160 in case Annabelle decides to walk in through the door 87 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,279 as if the last 11 years never happened. 88 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,720 Part of that means she cleans the room 89 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,639 to stop it turning into some sort of dusty shrine, 90 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,839 and last week while she was doing this, 91 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,600 she found something she hadn't noticed before. 92 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:26,879 A disposable camera. 93 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:29,800 Do you remember those? 94 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,879 The little wind-on cameras people used to leave on tables at weddings? 95 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,840 On that camera was an undeveloped photo 96 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,759 of Annabelle Ashcombe at just such a wedding, 97 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,439 the weekend before she went missing. 98 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,519 Not the last photo ever taken, but not far off. 99 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,000 Upsetting for a mum to see, but… 100 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,519 also a nice thing to find. 101 00:07:57,519 --> 00:07:59,159 And that would have been that, 102 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,680 had Annabelle's mum not spotted someone else in the photo. 103 00:08:02,759 --> 00:08:04,759 A person you might recognize. 104 00:08:06,439 --> 00:08:09,639 A man later convicted of the murder of Samantha West. 105 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,360 And when we saw that we thought, "That's funny. 106 00:08:16,439 --> 00:08:19,759 A murder victim and a murderer together in the same shot like that? 107 00:08:19,839 --> 00:08:23,040 We should call Belmarsh, invite Sandeep Singh over for a chat… 108 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,800 or a business meeting, as he might prefer to call it." 109 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,240 That is you, isn't it? 110 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,840 - Where was this taken? - That wasn't the question. 111 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:50,919 - At a wedding? - At a wedding in Maidenhead. 112 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,440 Never been to Maidenhead. 113 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,440 - Well, with resp... - Sorry, that's just a fact. 114 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:57,120 Well, we disagree. 115 00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:01,399 It's almost as if, Sandeep, we've got a photograph to prove it. 116 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,159 That is you. 117 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,000 And that… 118 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:09,919 is Annabelle Ashcombe. 119 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,639 And six days later, after that was taken, she disappeared. 120 00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:19,600 Don't forget. 121 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:21,559 Sorry? 122 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,200 To ask your question. 123 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,080 What are you asking me? 124 00:09:29,759 --> 00:09:32,120 I'm asking how you explain that. 125 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,200 I can't. 126 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,480 - But you... - Next. 127 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,799 - But you knew Annabelle Ashcombe. - No. 128 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,440 - But you met her. - No. 129 00:09:42,799 --> 00:09:45,279 - She's in the same photo. - Yes. 130 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,200 - With you next to her. - Behind her. 131 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:49,519 - You're with her. - She's facing the other way. 132 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,519 - You weren't introduced? - I don't know if that's her. 133 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,279 - Well, that is her. - But I don't know that, do I? 134 00:09:57,399 --> 00:09:59,559 I only know that's her because you keep telling me, 135 00:09:59,639 --> 00:10:02,240 but I genuinely could not pick her out of a line-up. 136 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,279 I wonder if she would say the same about you. 137 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,840 - She can't do anything about it now. - No, she can't, and why is that? 138 00:10:07,919 --> 00:10:10,120 Because you say that she's been murdered. 139 00:10:11,399 --> 00:10:12,720 Which is terrible. 140 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:15,799 - You think murder's terrible? - Listen! 141 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,879 I do not sit in my cell feeling proud. 142 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,799 I regret what happened with Samantha West. 143 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,720 I live with the fact that I took the life of another 144 00:10:31,799 --> 00:10:33,519 every single day. 145 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,600 - Sandeep... - But I only did that once! 146 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,120 And I do not deserve to be pinned to every single unsolved crime out there 147 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,440 because I fucked up on this one occasion! 148 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,120 Yes? 149 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,279 Sit back in your chair for me, Sandeep. 150 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,039 There's a good chap. 151 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,320 Should… should we get uniform in the room? 152 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,840 Only to stop her attacking him. 153 00:11:10,159 --> 00:11:12,919 It might have been the Ogbonnas. 154 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,039 He's Nigerian. Public school type. 155 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,559 If that was the wedding, then yeah, I was there. On my own. 156 00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:20,879 That's the one. 157 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,039 I remember that as being in Marlow. 158 00:11:23,639 --> 00:11:25,600 Marlow's not far from Maidenhead. 159 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,200 What day did she go missing? 160 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:34,279 - The following Friday. - What date is that? 161 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,039 That would be September fourth. 162 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,279 September fourth, 2008. 163 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:39,600 Nine. 164 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:44,720 This was 2009? 165 00:11:44,799 --> 00:11:47,600 A few months before you were arrested for the murder of Samantha West. 166 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,159 We've already said that. 167 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,559 In that case, I can help you. 168 00:11:54,919 --> 00:11:57,360 I can help you with your inquiries. 169 00:11:59,879 --> 00:12:01,039 It was not me. 170 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,279 And how did we suddenly work that one out? 171 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:06,600 Because… 172 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,720 I took a contract with Intrepid in 2009, 173 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,000 which I've already told you about 174 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,320 in my last interview, 2010. 175 00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:19,879 I took a job as an Excursion Manager with Intrepid Cruises 176 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,000 for six weeks in the autumn of 2009. 177 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,240 Not because I have an interest in travel, 178 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,519 but because cruise ships are filled with cash-rich 60-somethings who… 179 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,960 and I will level with you… are perfect potential investors. 180 00:12:37,039 --> 00:12:42,519 I did the same thing a few years earlier and the dates were always the same. 181 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,519 Travel out to Miami on the August bank holiday, 182 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,399 do a two-day induction and… 183 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:51,600 off you go. 184 00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:58,559 Miami, Cozumel… 185 00:12:59,799 --> 00:13:01,720 Saint Kitts, Saint Thomas… 186 00:13:01,799 --> 00:13:03,799 - Yeah. Bang on. - …Back to Miami. 187 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,720 Shall I get a number? 188 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,240 Yeah. 189 00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:11,559 They still run that route, I think. 190 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,240 And like the wedding… 191 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:19,720 they certainly took photos, too. 192 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:30,919 Interview suspended at 16:21. 193 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:47,120 The cruise is confirmed as leaving Miami on the second, 194 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,159 and by the time Annabelle goes missing on the fourth, 195 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,360 he's a million miles away, playing gin rummy, doing the Macarena. 196 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,720 And he was definitely on board? 197 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,000 Yeah, he's even in the big group photo that they do on deck. 198 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,000 - So he's alibi-ed. - Yeah. 199 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,519 Were Annabelle Ashcombe's family told about the arrest? 200 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:13,679 No. 201 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,200 Ah, well… Nothing lost, eh? 202 00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:18,919 It's not our fault he didn't do it. 203 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,120 Mm. 204 00:14:22,159 --> 00:14:23,559 Do you want me to tell him? 205 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,240 - Mm-hmm. - Okay. 206 00:14:38,039 --> 00:14:41,080 Right, the van from Belmarsh is still downstairs. 207 00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:44,200 You need to give them two minutes' notice so they can bring it round. 208 00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:45,279 Okay? 209 00:14:46,679 --> 00:14:49,600 So that's it? We just stop? 210 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,159 Well, what were you after? Some kind of conversational warm-down? 211 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:58,080 But the driver from Belmarsh isn't collecting me till six. 212 00:14:58,159 --> 00:14:59,919 You've got me for another hour. 213 00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:02,039 Don't need you for another hour. 214 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,279 What you told us checks out. 215 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:07,799 Conversation's over. 216 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,080 Why? Was there something you wanted to add? 217 00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:15,799 No, there was something I wanted to ask. 218 00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:22,559 Had I known who was responsible… 219 00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:29,120 And had I been open to telling you… 220 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:32,159 What then? 221 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,080 What would it have been worth? 222 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,159 - Do you? - No. 223 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,720 But… 224 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,559 You have, sitting before you… 225 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,240 someone who has spent the last ten years 226 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:55,919 sharing cells and corridors 227 00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:58,919 with some of the most dangerous men in the country. 228 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,639 And those men talk. 229 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:04,960 So there are crimes… 230 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,320 high-profile crimes… 231 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:11,240 high-profile, unsolved crimes, that I do know something about, 232 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,080 I can help you with. 233 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:18,080 And you have a one-hour window in which you can talk to me. 234 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,960 So, to go back to my… 235 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:24,840 original question… 236 00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:29,120 What is it worth? 237 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,279 Well, why don't you tell us what the case is 238 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,480 and we'll decide whether it's high profile and whether we want your help. 239 00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:39,799 Or… 240 00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:43,159 if we are brainstorming here, 241 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:49,840 you name some of the highest-profile unsolved crimes you can think of, 242 00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:52,879 and we'll see if it comes up. 243 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:01,960 How about… 244 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:08,240 Okay, then. 245 00:17:09,759 --> 00:17:13,720 The guy who fired into the crowd at the, uh, Newcastle concert. 246 00:17:27,799 --> 00:17:31,000 The man who killed the male sex workers in Birmingham last year? 247 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,279 Sorry. 248 00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:39,839 What would you say, Tone? 249 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,000 I'd say he should hurry up and tell us himself. 250 00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:45,880 Otherwise, we'll use the whole hour just doing this bit. 251 00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:48,039 The missing boy. 252 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,680 Alfie. 253 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,319 Alfie… 254 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,680 Alfie Ince. That's it. 255 00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:09,160 Alfie Ince. 256 00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:19,319 Shut up! 257 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,680 That would be of interest, yes? 258 00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:27,599 Considered high profile? 259 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,319 Enough that, if I told you what happened, 260 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,680 I may be able to negotiate a reduction in my sentence? 261 00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:39,880 You are joking, aren't you? 262 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,279 This has got to be bullshit. 263 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,799 Well, we'd need to check, but, um… 264 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,079 …in theory it's not impossible. 265 00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:52,079 Good. 266 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:57,160 So with, what, 55 minutes left, 267 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,799 let's find a way to do business. 268 00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:05,519 Get DCS Miller on the line. 269 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,559 Tell her we need a prosecutor. 270 00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:15,559 - CPS. - We're calling them now. 271 00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:17,480 Oh, God. 272 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,200 - What if he's lying? - But what if he's not? 273 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,839 - Got to be nonsense. - But what if it's not? 274 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,359 It's one of the biggest unsolved cases in the country. 275 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,119 No, I know, I know. 276 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:30,440 Wait. 277 00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:34,200 Paul Ottager. He worked the Alfie Ince case, didn't he? 278 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,160 - Did he? - Yes. 279 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,440 We were in the pub, he was telling us all about it. 280 00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:40,799 - Not the investigation, the case review. - Guv… 281 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,160 If we can get Paul to sit in, he can help steer this. 282 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,440 Guv, it wasn't Paul Ottager that worked the Alfie Ince case. 283 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,880 - The CPS is sending Donna Swift. - Oh… 284 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,319 Ten minutes away and not happy about missing a leaving do at Wahaca. 285 00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:07,440 Hey, where are you? 286 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,880 It's a two-stage process. 287 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,400 First, a scoping interview 288 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,079 in which Mr. Singh will give us whatever information he claims to have, 289 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,160 then a debrief. 290 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,200 That's then written up, 291 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:34,240 signed by you, signed by us, signed by the SIO, 292 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:38,400 to confirm the information is sufficiently helpful. 293 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:40,839 Then that's all put before a judge, 294 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,160 who's the only person who can approve the reduction of the term. 295 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:49,000 Can we guarantee the reduction in the sentence in advance? 296 00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:52,200 Not without knowing the quality of the information. 297 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:55,039 - No. No, you're right. But… - It would be foolish. 298 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,359 Sure. But if we made that a condition… 299 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,359 Provided the information is of value… 300 00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:05,200 We can certainly look into it. 301 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,680 Thank you. 302 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,799 Could we look into it now? 303 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,480 We're in a hurry, I can tell. 304 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,440 What is the case that Mr. Singh is looking to help us with today? 305 00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:30,720 Alfie Ince. 306 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,480 - As in… - As in, Alfie Ince. 307 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,279 He can help with that? 308 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:40,559 He says he can, yeah. 309 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,920 The prosecutor's working to see if she cannot guarantee 310 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,759 a reduction in your sentence. 311 00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:52,759 - How long will that take? - Five or ten minutes. 312 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,720 That won't leave us much time. There's a lot I've got to tell you. 313 00:21:56,799 --> 00:21:59,759 But this deadline of yours, it's not real, is it? 314 00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:03,200 We can talk again tomorrow. 315 00:22:03,519 --> 00:22:05,519 You could. I won't. 316 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,960 So you won't want to discuss a reduction in your sentence tomorrow? 317 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,279 I'm giving you a one-hour window, less than that now… 318 00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:18,519 to guarantee me a reduction in my sentence. 319 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:22,359 Do that and I will tell you what happened to Alfie Ince. 320 00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:26,000 Fail, and my offer to help is retracted. 321 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,559 That is the line that I'm taking. 322 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,279 And I'm taking it because putting you on the spot like this 323 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,519 gives me a better chance of a bigger reduction. 324 00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:38,960 Now you may or may not choose 325 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:42,160 to believe that deadline is real. 326 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,400 That's up to you. 327 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:47,279 That's on your conscience. 328 00:22:49,079 --> 00:22:52,200 You are the ones who will have to tell Alfie Ince's parents 329 00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:56,160 you decided to not take me seriously. 330 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,960 And in answer to your next question… 331 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,000 I want four years taken off. 332 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,400 From a 14-year bid? 333 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,519 Of which you've already served ten. 334 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,440 Meaning you'd barely go back to Belmarsh at all. 335 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,839 Only to collect some of my stuff. 336 00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:22,519 Is four years even doable? 337 00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:24,000 It's right at the top end. 338 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,160 Done his homework, that's for sure. 339 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,160 Gavin? Gavin, can you hear me? 340 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,319 He was always going to bring this up, wasn't he? 341 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,079 And there I was, not wanting to give him time to think. 342 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,440 Okay. 343 00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:48,960 But there can be no further requests. 344 00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:51,960 We can't have you increasing your demands as we go. 345 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,920 Four years. 346 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,079 That is the price. 347 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,640 - That is the deal. - Nothing else? 348 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Well, maybe a cup of tea. 349 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,440 Oh, and… a biscuit, 350 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,400 if you have one. 351 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,839 But if I can stick a piece of paper in front of him, 352 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,759 something in principle, I've got a feeling that might… 353 00:24:24,039 --> 00:24:25,480 Yes, I know. 354 00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:31,240 Yes, I realize, but Gavin, this is Alfie Ince. 355 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,319 Is that for me? 356 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,839 Hugo worked the Alfie Ince case review back in 2015. 357 00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:15,000 He knows it better than any of us. 358 00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:17,359 And you remember it? 359 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:19,240 Yes, ma'am. 360 00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:20,720 Then I want you straight in. 361 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,119 Yes, ma'am. 362 00:25:24,519 --> 00:25:25,799 Twenty-nine minutes to go. 363 00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:28,279 - Says who? - Says him. 364 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,880 And we've decided to take him seriously. 365 00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:34,400 The recording is yet to start? 366 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,119 Tony wanted to wait for you. 367 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:44,720 You know, I was thinking about this on my way over. 368 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,440 I should use all this to my advantage. 369 00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:54,000 Tell you I'm not setting foot in that room unless you let me back in here. 370 00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:57,559 Reinstate me. 371 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,680 You were never going to try that, Hugo. You're too good a man. 372 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,720 And a rubbish negotiator. 373 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:05,119 From the CPS. 374 00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:07,119 For your colleague. 375 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:09,559 That should get him talking. 376 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,640 Okay, let's go. 377 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,079 Interview starts at 17:42. 378 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,119 Present in the room, Detective Inspector Tony Myerscough. 379 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,759 Hugo Duffy. And? 380 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,640 Singh, Sandeep, 06-04-82. 381 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,880 The Crown Prosecution Service's way of saying 382 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,759 they'll recommend a four-year reduction to your sentence. 383 00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:49,079 Provided what I tell you is any good, yes? 384 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,480 What happened, where he is… 385 00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:56,720 - Whether he's dead or alive. - No, he's not alive. 386 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,359 He was dead within hours of being thrown into the van. 387 00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:05,240 But we're getting ahead of ourselves. 388 00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:08,279 We begin at the beginning. 389 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:17,440 He was right. 390 00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:20,079 The chap before you. 391 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,240 I was in Brixton before Belmarsh, 392 00:28:24,319 --> 00:28:26,640 2010, somewhere around there. 393 00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:30,000 First time being locked in a cell. 394 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,920 Nothing more terrifying. 395 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,000 Nothing, I promise you. 396 00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:39,599 When they lock that door… 397 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,200 and the lights go out… 398 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,480 and all you're left with 399 00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,799 are the memories of the actions 400 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,240 that brought you there in the first place… 401 00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:56,240 It's haunting. 402 00:29:01,559 --> 00:29:03,119 And the only guy… 403 00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:06,440 more terrified than me 404 00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:08,799 was the guy… 405 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,720 a few cells down. 406 00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:15,079 Turns out he's a high-end car thief. 407 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,759 The kind of cars that go missing on Bond Street one day, 408 00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:21,240 and end up in Bulgaria the next. 409 00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:22,599 I start thinking, 410 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,200 it might be worth getting closer to this guy 411 00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:28,559 for business reasons, because, you know, Bulgaria… 412 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:29,880 Macedonia… 413 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,440 all those countries around there are full of potential investors. 414 00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:35,880 And, if he can introduce me, 415 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,359 I could make it worth his while, blah, blah, blah. 416 00:29:39,079 --> 00:29:43,079 Anyway, we're slowly making plans. 417 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,799 And once I have his trust… 418 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,319 he starts telling me 419 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,559 that this route to Bulgaria 420 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,920 is used for more than just cars. 421 00:29:57,759 --> 00:29:59,440 - Alcohol? - Alcohol. 422 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:01,519 - People? - Yes. 423 00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:03,920 - Girls, boys… - Yes, that's it. 424 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:05,839 Alfie Ince. 425 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,200 - That's what I'm coming to. - So he did do it? 426 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,759 That's what I'm telling you. 427 00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:13,559 That he trafficked Alfie out of the UK? 428 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,119 For 25 grand. 429 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,720 That's what I thought. 430 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:27,880 We need a name. 431 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,400 But on the ferry over, he said that Alfie tried to get out. 432 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,000 That Alfie climbed into the front of the van 433 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:41,240 and tried to kick through the windscreen and had to be subdued. 434 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,039 That's how it happened. 435 00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:49,559 Screaming and shouting. 436 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,319 He'd have given the whole thing away, 437 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,039 the whole system, supply line, had he not been subdued. 438 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,079 That's how he ended up killing him. 439 00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:03,680 And his name? 440 00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:08,400 Burying him in some national park, uh… 441 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,880 Near, what did he say? Uh, Arnhem. 442 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,680 All these details, they're nothing without a name. 443 00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:34,599 John Brian Buchanan. 444 00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:40,960 He lives at The Ridge, Emlin Lane, near Loughton. 445 00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:44,000 Which means Epping Forest is his patch. 446 00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:51,319 And what? You just happen to know his full address off by heart? 447 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:53,200 I do. 448 00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:56,680 It was the address we were to use to set up a business. 449 00:31:56,759 --> 00:31:58,240 It was to be our base. 450 00:31:58,319 --> 00:31:59,640 A company doing what? 451 00:32:02,119 --> 00:32:03,359 No comment. 452 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,319 Something illegal, then. 453 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,319 Physical laundering. 454 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,559 The company was going to make money by moving money. 455 00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,079 All right? That was the idea. 456 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,359 Illegal if it had started, but we didn't, so you're fine. 457 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,400 We stopped once I found out that, uh… 458 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,880 Buchanan had branched into something that was… 459 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,960 unacceptable to me, personally. 460 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,440 He's right, CPS records have Buchanan charged for smuggling, 461 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,359 sexual offenses… 462 00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:44,559 All manner of stuff. 463 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,519 I'm no angel, 464 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,880 but it doesn't make what he did any less abhorrent. 465 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,960 That's why I'm telling you all of this. 466 00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:02,039 Is that right? 467 00:33:02,079 --> 00:33:04,759 I'm giving you all the information you need for Alfie. 468 00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:06,599 Really? 469 00:33:11,319 --> 00:33:14,880 And it feels like you're attacking me for it. Is that your role here? 470 00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:18,720 I don't have a role here, Sandeep. Not anymore. 471 00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:23,799 I'm just here because I promised his family I'd do everything I could. 472 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,200 So when I heard you were here talking about this, 473 00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:28,559 I became a bit like the guys in Brixton… 474 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,720 Keen to pay you a visit. 475 00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:35,359 Did he live alone? 476 00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:38,079 Who? 477 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,400 Buchanan. 478 00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:41,920 He was in prison. 479 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,039 But the house in Emlin Lane where you were going to base this… 480 00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:46,359 business. 481 00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:49,039 Did he live there alone? 482 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,720 So why not do it somewhere more private? 483 00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:54,519 - There was nowhere more private. - No? 484 00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:56,680 It was the only place we had. 485 00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:01,240 No, no. You're forgetting, Sandeep, you're a man of property. 486 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:03,519 Houses dotted around the south of England. 487 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,519 Now, I don't remember addresses off by heart, not in the way you do. 488 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,960 In a way, that, to me, seems a little… 489 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,239 over-prepared. 490 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,679 But looking back at the old Hugo Filing System, 491 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,320 I did come across… 492 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,480 Ash Lane. 493 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,599 Two, Ash Lane. 494 00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:31,599 It's a little cottage of yours. 495 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,280 I said to my guv at the time, when we were doing the review, 496 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,360 "Let's go down to Belmarsh, see what Sandeep Singh has got to say. 497 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:44,079 After all, we've got a convicted murderer living in Ash Lane in Thornwood. 498 00:34:44,559 --> 00:34:47,599 That's only 200 yards from where Alfie Ince was at the time." 499 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,760 - That's not true. - What's not true? 500 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,800 Alfie Ince is from Loughton. Not Thornwood. That is well documented. 501 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,440 It is, but Sandeep, this was the summer holidays 502 00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:00,239 and he was with his nan that day. 503 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,880 Who lives in Thornwood. 504 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:04,760 Near you. 505 00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:09,840 That was the link here, you see? 506 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,920 That's why I came running down here like my career depended on it. 507 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,559 And that's what had me interested back then, but my guv at the time… 508 00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:20,159 He said not to bother with you. 509 00:35:21,639 --> 00:35:24,159 Because you, in his words… 510 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,880 "…were the wrong kind of psycho." 511 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,440 Not a nonce. 512 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:34,039 Just a narcissist. 513 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,159 So we never went looking for Alfie at your place. 514 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,679 Not then, anyway. 515 00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:44,960 But now, 516 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:46,920 we are checking. 517 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,599 Are you? 518 00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:49,960 No. 519 00:35:50,039 --> 00:35:52,440 We have sent scene-of-crime officers up there. 520 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:55,480 Number Two, Ash Lane, Thornwood. 521 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,480 See, I remembered it that time. 522 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:00,960 They're gonna have a look around, 523 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,599 have a dig about, 524 00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:04,679 make sure Alfie isn't there after all. 525 00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:13,400 You're a businessman, yeah? 526 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,800 So while you think on that, let us make you an offer. 527 00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:20,599 So, how about this? 528 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,239 If they find a body, 529 00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:30,119 instead of a reduction in your sentence, you'll be getting another 14. 530 00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:31,679 That makes sense, yeah? 531 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,800 Whether you did this alone or with Buchanan, 532 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,199 you'll now be serving two life sentences. 533 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,039 Don't need a spreadsheet to work that one out. 534 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,400 However, if you cooperate, 535 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,719 if you are contrite, and you genuinely try to help, 536 00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:56,280 a judge may well look favorably on that. 537 00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:59,199 It's what's known in your world as cutting your losses. 538 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,280 So save us all time, 539 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,199 and tell us where to dig, Sandeep. 540 00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:15,280 Tell us what they'll find, and whereabouts in your back garden they will find it. 541 00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:25,000 I'm going to have to hurry you, mate. This offer only stands till 6:00 p.m. 542 00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:27,400 Yeah? Why six? 543 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,440 - Because the SOCO team's on its way. - And because that's the line we're taking. 544 00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:39,679 Tell us what they'll find, Sandeep, when they get there. 545 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,199 With all that scanning equipment and all that. 546 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,559 Your garden, your patio, under your floorboards… 547 00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:51,079 When they start looking. 548 00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:55,679 Forget the big mirror. 549 00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:00,440 The microphones, and anybody else who might be watching. 550 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,760 Just tell us the truth. 551 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:09,519 What will they find? 552 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,519 What will they find, Sandeep? 553 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,639 Who will they find? 554 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,440 Make it better for the family. 555 00:38:33,199 --> 00:38:34,760 Tell us now, Sandeep. 556 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,159 They'll find Annabelle Ashcombe. 557 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,079 She told me, at the wedding, 558 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,400 she could invest half a million. 559 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,119 Half a million. 560 00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:25,920 That meant I decided to not take the job on the cruise. 561 00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:30,400 She comes to see me a few days after, 562 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,199 at the cottage. 563 00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:38,320 Says she's changed her mind. 564 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,920 Meaning I've lost both the investment… 565 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,360 and the job. 566 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,960 And that's when I lost it. 567 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,000 I asked her if she'd like to see the garden. 568 00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:10,320 I don't know why. 569 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,360 I do know why. 570 00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:24,719 And while she's standing there… 571 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,599 just like in the photo… 572 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,840 facing the other way… 573 00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:38,400 I hit her with a pole. 574 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,840 Once. 575 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,400 That's all it needed. 576 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,400 And that is when the football landed in the garden. 577 00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:08,559 Sorry? 578 00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:13,920 He comes in a few seconds later to fetch it. 579 00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:19,159 Alfie? 580 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,719 I say she's poorly. 581 00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:29,639 Had had a fall. 582 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,960 I ask him to help me. 583 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,840 To check, see if she's still breathing. 584 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,880 And as he's leaning over, back comes the pole. 585 00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:56,960 I went out to Florida… 586 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,960 but only got on the boat in time for the photo at the end. 587 00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:07,400 But I made sure I was in it… I made sure I was in it… 588 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,480 I made sure I was in it! 589 00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:23,880 They'll see a cross in the grass, your… 590 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,679 scene-of-crime people. 591 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,039 Where the bird table used to be. 592 00:42:33,679 --> 00:42:35,599 Tell them to dig around there. 593 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,519 Right. I'll notify the SIO. 594 00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,119 I'll call Belmarsh, say we're hanging onto him for now. 595 00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:48,280 On it, Guv. 596 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,760 So the prosecutor's gone, and it's drinks at the Rose. 597 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,960 - Right. That's where we're off to, is it? - That's the rumor. 598 00:44:01,039 --> 00:44:04,639 Except Jamie's not coming, because of all the paperwork, 599 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,159 and Vanessa's giving Kyle a lift home. 600 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:08,960 Oh, so it's just you, me and Hugo. 601 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,280 - Well, Hugo can't. - He can have a soft drink. 602 00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:17,239 He needs an early night. Starting a new job in the morning. 603 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,719 So, still worth it, then? 604 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:26,800 What do you mean? 605 00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:30,239 How many clues do you need? 606 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,440 Interview terminated at 18:13. 607 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,119 Yes!